A plea for guidance

[jeanne]

Hi all,

I've written in response to other submissive's threads: "patience". Well, I have lost mine. The "two steps forward, one step back" dance I've been in with my husband has lost about 10 steps, and I'm feeling horrible. It seemed a couple of months ago that we were about to break through to a wonderful D/s relationship, but all has come to a screeching halt, and our D/s interactions have degenerated to a little "slap and tickle" during sex. What am I doing wrong? I know he was getting into it - once in a while the energy between us was so strong you could almost see it. Is it the fact that domination is a lot of work? Preparation, thought, planning...but from what I read here on the forums, you all get the payoff you want! Is that what's missing? Am I not giving him what he needs/wants? Please answer this question: what is your reward for dominating your submissive? Is it the tears and comfort he/she requires? Is it the joy and happiness she feels when she takes what you give and gives what you want? Is it quiet obedience that satisfies you? I'm willing to go in other directions in my submissiveness, but don't know which way to turn!

Hoping for something to hang on to,
jeanne

[MrDom]

Ok best thing i always tell Dom's or sub talk talk talk. Won't know what wrong or either of your needs are being met. If you do not communacate. Yes as a Dom there is lots of work. My rewards from my Slave is her love affection and mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm seeing the content in her eys makes it worht it too me.

MrDom

[Euryleia]

Echoing Mr. Dom--you've got to talk! Find out why things have slowed, find out what he wants and what he might be afraid of (it can be scary to have that kind of power if you're not a natural Top, reassure him that this [and him] is what you want).

Also, maybe write out a script of a fantansy or two (leaving options open for the Top to play with) of what you'd like to experience. That might take some of the 'work' out it while still being what you need. Besides, writing down your fantasies is always hot, right?

ER

[cadence]

I don't have any great advice of my own to offer, but I have been given some valuable advice from others and will share a bit of it with you.
I don't know if it is relavent to your situation, or if it will even be useful to you, but it was a big help to me when I wanted to just give up on it all.

I do think that we are in similar situations, but mine is a painfully slow process and it takes months and months to even take a step forward.
I had to step back many times and re_evaluate everything.
I questioned myself and what I wanted, and I still do, but sometimes there are people who can offer up a bit of information which makes me want to keep going forward.

First figure out what type of submissive you are, what you want from it and need from it, and how you can best utalize it.

You can't force someone to be Dominant, you can try but if they have little to no desire to be Dominant, it can be a lesson in frustration in topping from the bottom.
You have to let him go at his own pace, he may not be all that comfortable, but may not want to let you know, he wants to please you, but will not satisfy or understand his own Dominant side if he is uncomfortable going too fast.

Yes communication is a valuable tool, find out what his needs are, why he ticks, what he wants, how you can best satisfy him with your sumbmissiveness.


Patience is easier said than done, and no matter how irritated you can get, you still need to have it. Try and figure out ways you can be submissive to him, without him even having to be Dominant towards you. Those small little things that you do, may help the process along.

You can never have your cake and eat it too, 24/7 is not all that it is cracked up to be. I have always hated people who told me that. Why would you state that you are in a 24/7 D/s relationship, yet tell me how hard and difficult it is. Why would they be in it then?
Of course a fantasy is a fantasy, real life always overrides a 24/7 D/s living arrangement. I am sure that there are some who live that life out to the fullest of its potential, but most don't.
My opinion, is that 24/7 is two people who are in a commited relationship with each other, who as well share a common bond and enjoy that power exchange and try to incorporate that into thier lives whenever they can.

Being submissive is not getting what you want all of the time, it is focusing on his needs, and ensuring he is happy. Your wants and needs are met through his satisfaction, not through your own.

I don't know if this advice will help, it helps me when I am frustrated and feel like smacking the Domliness into his brain.

I hope that you can move forward to what you want, you do deserve it.

[Ozme52]

Hi all,

I've written in response to other submissive's threads: "patience". Well, I have lost mine. The "two steps forward, one step back" dance I've been in with my husband has lost about 10 steps, and I'm feeling horrible. It seemed a couple of months ago that we were about to break through to a wonderful D/s relationship, but all has come to a screeching halt, and our D/s interactions have degenerated to a little "slap and tickle" during sex. What am I doing wrong? I know he was getting into it - once in a while the energy between us was so strong you could almost see it. Is it the fact that domination is a lot of work? Preparation, thought, planning...but from what I read here on the forums, you all get the payoff you want! Is that what's missing? Am I not giving him what he needs/wants? Please answer this question: what is your reward for dominating your submissive? Is it the tears and comfort he/she requires? Is it the joy and happiness she feels when she takes what you give and gives what you want? Is it quiet obedience that satisfies you? I'm willing to go in other directions in my submissiveness, but don't know which way to turn!

Hoping for something to hang on to,
jeanne

It's actually easy to roleplay the dominant half, but if you are a true submissive, the trappings alone are insufficient. You aren't feeling his need for you to submit to him because he may in fact only be playing the role. If you've been married a number of years and had a relationship of equality, it may be actually difficult for him to see you in a subservient role. Even if he is a dominant, he may still have trouble seeing YOU in that role.

How do you change him? You may or may not be able to... but it strikes me you either have to keep trying or look elsewhere, even if on a one-off basis. Maybe even take both paths. I know that's difficult for many subs to hear. It's true in the vanilla world whether by affair or swinging/swapping or just having an open relationship. So it is no more or less onerous to consider having a D/s affair imo.

What do we, as dominants, truly crave? What's our reward? I know you've read and commented on my "Connections" thread. Re-read it with your question in mind and you'll get some insight into my joy and the rewards I feel when gifted by a willing submissive. I won't speak for other Dom/mes, but enough of them have commented as well... so there is some insight to be gained from it.

I'm willing to go in other directions in my submissiveness, but don't know which way to turn!

Before you can take any path... you really need to learn what you yourself crave, need and desire. A path that leaves you unfullfilled may not please him either and then you're both unhappy and THAT can end what you currently have together. So again I suggest... explore.

[Rhabbi]

I will echo what was said earlier, talk about this.

That said, let me go into my reward as a Dom. For me it is the joy a sub gets out of submission. When this happiness, there is a feedback loop and I get happier and relaxed, then so does she. This, to me, is the purest joy on earth.

[Sir_Russell]

his_j, I don't much feel like I have many answers right now but I will try to help.

First thanks to sexy cadence for the "Being submissive is not getting what you want all of the time, it is focusing on his needs, and ensuring he is happy. Your wants and needs are met through his satisfaction, not through your own." That is very true of the type of submissive most of us are looking for.

I enjoy and find gratification I her pleasure, no matter what we are doing she is my first concern. I can't tell you how wonderful it is to hear her beg then cum. Her sounds she makes as she does tasks or is getting excited are a big pay off for me. When she calls me Master or does something just for me it is thrilling.

It is very hard for me to understand how any man doesn't want to be a loving subs Dom/Master. So my advice to you is find ways to be submissive in every day life to him, bringing a drink to him or asking him what you may do for him, in other words pamper him but be sexy as you do it.

And yes talk to him about it.

[jeanne]

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful and useful responses. I'll start with the last and move up.

Sir_Russell, I already do those things - I take care of him on a daily basis and try to "think sexy thoughts" while doing it. Actually, I just think about how much I love him. And I do get some satisfaction from it.

Rhabbi, that's how I feel about it too! Joyful. When the loop is really strong, I could almost laugh out loud (and have) with sheer joy.

Oz, that's my fear. That he can't dominate me, not because he doesn't want to, but because he can't see me that way. I will reread the thread, although at this point it's probably burned into my monitor screeen anyway, I've read it so often.

cadence, I always, always value what you say. And I have been thinking all the things that you wrote. Today I especially value you for making me laugh. "Smack the Domliness into his brain." I burst out laughing because I've had that very mental image the last few weeks. Thank you!

Euryleia, writing fantasies is a great idea. I've been doing it a little, but haven't yet had the nerve to share them with him. It's time to take that next step.

MrDom, (and everyone else, cause you all said it) yes, it is time for more talking.

Feeling a little better and with a smidgen of hope,
jeanne

[tessa]

jeanne, I didn't see this til now. ~hugs~

There are days...weeks actually, when I think, "this is going nowhere!!" Then there are times when it's so perfect, I can't even think. I like what Oz said when he pointed out that your husband may not see you as that submissive type he's always had his mind on. Do you see him as the Dominant of your dreams. Hopefully that answer is 'yes'. It makes the BDSM world you're trying to create and sustain an easier place to settle into. But you may have to readjust your paradigm about each other. And yes, you have to talk about it. But it can be a quick conversation, just to get the idea started. My husband said I was "overwhelming" him with info. So I backed off and just threw little pieces out there. It's helped.

I talked to a Dom the other day who told me that it took a good few years to get comfortable in his Dom skin. That's what I said! But look at it this way, if you will. For your husband's whole life, he's been told what right and okay to think and feel about women. Now, there's this whole other mindset to consider. Just yesterday, I was watching a show about a woman that was distressed when her husband would hold her down with his foot and declare his ownership over her. My husband was with me and about at the same time as I said, "what's so wrong with that?", he said, "a man can't do that." Then I said, "yes he can, if it's within the accepted limits of a safe, respectful and consensual relationship." We looked at each other and had that moment of connecting and understanding. Little moments like that help, too. (Now I know what abuse is, so please don't think I'm advocating abuse of any sort.)

Also, suggestions about what would be fun to try and pictures of said activities that just happen to find a way into his view might also encourage him to try more with you. "Honey, it would feel so good if we..." along with a visual can't be all bad, right?

Just hold his hand tight and ask him to walk with you.

All the very best-
tessa

[jeanne]

Oh, tessa, thank you so much for your thoughful reply. I do throw suggestions out there. Here's an example from last week:

2 days before I leave for the beach. We're going to be separated for almost 5 days. So I say that this would be a chance to try some control. Him controlling me (a personal hot button of mine). I could only masturbate and cum when he gave me permission. And I ask him what he thinks. His response: I'll think about it. And that was the end of that. No more discussion, no control, I'm masturbating all over the damn place (well, not really, but sorta, if you know what I mean! ) and I'm unhappy. How much clearer do I need to be???

Another example, same trip away, we're talking on the phone. I tell him how much I miss his cock in my mouth, how empty my mouth feels, etc. And how I can't wait to see him and have him there. His response: maybe you can do that on the way home. Maybe???? Could I get just a little bit of damn enthusiasm out of him? This is the man who couldn't keep his hands off me for 22 years!

Aarrghh! Do I sound frustrated? I hope so, because that's how I feel. Am I even really submitting at this point? What am I submitting to? A dream, a hope, a fantasy, a wish?

Oh, I'm just sick of listening to myself whine, so I'll stop now.

Clapping my hand over my own mouth to stop that irritating Waah sound,
jeanne

[Austerus]

j,

Perhaps something happened recently that either scared him about your safety or himself, or worried him about his losing control? Perhaps he is trying a mindfuck but it is not coming out quite right? (or perhaps it is, and you are getting totally pwned.)

It sounds like either:
A) Something happened that worried him/freaked him out and he is now nervous
B) He is taking the BDSM relationship for granted and is not realizing that there is as much give as take in the D position

or

C) He is getting wwaaaaayyy inside your head and twisting little knobs in a very clever way

Sounds like you are doing most everything right, and if the answer is C it sounds like you're in for a whole lot of begging, pleading, and showing him how important his domination is to you before you get your spoils.

If it's A or B, then it will require some honest, open discussions with him to figure out what's going on, and how the two of you can work through everything together and keep moving forward. It sounds like you have a long, successful relationship with him, so I feel confident that you will find a way to communicate and work things out.

In the meantime you have my sympathies and best wishes

[TomOfSweden]

Yeah, but it isn't about pushing the right buttons and having your guy do the dom thing. If it's there it's there. I think this is a communication thing. Tell him that you're frustrated and that you need more. Just don't demand that he should be more horny, because that's never worked on any man.

Tell him what you need and want.

[nightsilver]

2 days before I leave for the beach. We're going to be separated for almost 5 days. So I say that this would be a chance to try some control. Him controlling me (a personal hot button of mine). I could only masturbate and cum when he gave me permission. And I ask him what he thinks. His response: I'll think about it. And that was the end of that. No more discussion, no control, I'm masturbating all over the damn place (well, not really, but sorta, if you know what I mean! ) and I'm unhappy. How much clearer do I need to be???

Another example, same trip away, we're talking on the phone. I tell him how much I miss his cock in my mouth, how empty my mouth feels, etc. And how I can't wait to see him and have him there. His response: maybe you can do that on the way home. Maybe???? Could I get just a little bit of damn enthusiasm out of him? This is the man who couldn't keep his hands off me for 22 years!

Perhaps he thinks these are things you want, and being dominant it is not his role to give you what he wants so he is denying you these things? Only reasoning I can think of that is not named already.

[Logic1]

I agree with Tom here.
Dominance is way easy for some and very hard for others.
Communication is very important
and btw: those offerings you made would have made me damn eager to take control for sure but it might have scared him perhaps. I dont know your hubby/Dom so it is hard for me to tell.
the very best of luck to you J

[jeanne]

You guys are great - thanks again for taking the time to think about this problem and offer your ideas for what the heck is going on.

One thing I can say for sure - it isn't a mindfuck. At least not one he's doing on purpose, to show his domination. He's not that good. I say that with love, not to be snarky. I hope someday he'll be that good, but there's a long way to go yet.

As far as getting worried/freaked out? I don't know. There's only been one lovely positive D/s experience in the last 2 months and it was absolutely great, for both of us. Very loving, very tender, very mental (as opposed to sensation-only play) and I can't for the life of me believe that he would have gotten freaked out by that! But, I've been wrong about him before, so who knows?

Oh, I would never demand "more horniness". I can, at least, ask him what's wrong. Unfortunately, when I tried to do just that last night, it came out wrong (I am far too emotional about this) and we ended up in a mini-fight. I need to calm down a lot before I try to talk with him again.

Too wound up to think straight,
jeanne

[Logic1]

take a hot warm bubblebath and a glass of wine and perhaps a massage to wind down and then talk?
might help. I wind down after a good drive or a hard run in the gym so winding down is very different for different people.
all the best of luck to you
/Marcus

[jeanne]

You were all so kind to reply - in return, here's the update.

We're on a break. A D/s break I mean. No D, no /s, just vanilla. This was actually my suggestion - I realized today that my asking him to do this could be construed as telling him that he's not good enough, just the way he is. And he is good enough. He's a good man, who loves me, who doesn't seem to be wired the way I'd like now! And each time I ask for more, more of what he doesn't quite see the appeal of, I disrespect him and put him down, just by asking. Not who I want to be. Not as a wife, not as a submissive.

We've agreed to revisit the issue in a couple of months. Reopen discussion after he's had some real time to think. To tell the truth, I think we're probably done with D/s as a couple. His lack of protest at my suggestion is telling.

Am I still submissive? Yes, absolutely, I have no doubt in my mind about that. So what to do? Read, write, masturbate (a lot), hang around here trying not to cause trouble. When I have one of those "poor me", whiny days, (and I will) please feel free to stride to whatever thread I'm in and tell me to "suck it up". I prefer a whisper, harsh and low, right in my ear, by the way.

Feeling better and doing the right thing for my husband,
jeanne

[tessa]

We've agreed to revisit the issue in a couple of months. Reopen discussion after he's had some real time to think.

I know how upsetting this must be for you. I think you'll be doing the quietly-upset thing, but still, not what you wanted for your relationship. ~hugs~

To tell the truth, I think we're probably done with D/s as a couple. His lack of protest at my suggestion is telling.

Ok, it's understandable that you would take this stance right now. It's how you feel about the situation (feel deeply about, I imagine), and as I see it for you, maybe it's s bit of a defense mechanism? You're trying to prepare yourself for what might be despite what you desire?

Just try to keep a tiny glimmer of hope flickering away somewhere inside, okay?

~hugs again~
tessa

[jeanne]

You're trying to prepare yourself for what might be despite what you desire?

Just try to keep a tiny glimmer of hope flickering away somewhere inside, okay?

~hugs again~
tessa

Yes, I will. Thanks, tessa, you're a valued friend.

Well, happy and loved, what more could I need?
jeanne

[Logic1]

happy and loved and sexually fulfilled perhaps?
I really hope that hubby of yours understands what you want and need and that he perhaps can take charge at times so that you get what you need atleast occationally.
It is not like it is an easy thing to ask of somebody and I am sure it took alot of courage from your part. I just hope he understands just how hard it was and that he appreciates your effort enough to give it to you sometimes (or hopefully often )
the very best of luck to you jeanne

[jeanne]

happy and loved and sexually fulfilled perhaps?
I really hope that hubby of yours understands what you want and need and that he perhaps can take charge at times so that you get what you need atleast occationally.
It is not like it is an easy thing to ask of somebody and I am sure it took alot of courage from your part. I just hope he understands just how hard it was and that he appreciates your effort enough to give it to you sometimes (or hopefully often )
the very best of luck to you jeanne

Logic!: Don't worry about me - my "needs" are being met. Not quite the way I hoped for, but still, all is well.

Understands what I want and need? That is the problem. He doesn't understand. I don't think he ever really saw the appeal and he definitely didn't get the mental part of it. He may turn into a pretty good top still, but a Dom? I don't think it's going to happen. Unfortunately, I've begun to realize that I'm NOT a bottom. I am submissive. There is a world of difference between the two for me.

I'm an extremist. I'd rather have all or none. Crumbs, sprinkled about to keep me quiet, will not suffice. And getting crumbs from him has become insulting and hurtful. That's my perception, not his intention.

Walking away from crumbs - I want the whole damn cake,
jeanne

[Sir_Russell]

Careful jeanne you may start a rush to the frozen north that would make the gold rush seem tame.

How long has he been trying this for you? Keep being submissive for him no matter what he does but also tell him over and over what you want/need.

lol if it doesn't work out let me know first. As close as I come to real begging

[cadence]

I wish there was something I could say to ease up your frustrations. I really do understand where you are coming from and how you feel.

It is extremely difficult to explain the dynamics of what being Submissive and being Dominant is. It is hard to place someone in that mindset when they have little interest in understanding it.

Like Sir Russel said though, keep doing submissive things for him. If it wasn't for me doing those small things to keep me satiated, I would have had to really think about staying in my relationship. He has even managed to destroy any bedroom play, by only doing the things he wants and being very satisfied with that, I end up being forgotten about. Now I have to figure out how to fix that.

He will probably never fully understand how I feel, but as long as that dynamic stays with us, I am content with it. There are no punishments, no rules, or rewards, just me doing what comes naturally, and he appreciates it.

Someone once told me that it may take years for someone who is not naturally drawn to the lifestyle (someone tell dynamicbuttler to cover his ears please) to become Dominant, and it is not a quick and easy process. That is something that I don't like to hear, but it is a fact that we have to deal with.

You know who you are and what you are, so take a step back, rethink and regroup, and don't stop being submissive. Dont give up and don't stop trying.

Or we can start a frustrated submissive thread and and bitch in it to our hearts content.

[Logic1]

Understands what I want and need? That is the problem. He doesn't understand. I don't think he ever really saw the appeal and he definitely didn't get the mental part of it. He may turn into a pretty good top still, but a Dom? I don't think it's going to happen.

that is what I meant with your needs met. Not just sexually.
I really do hope all goes well for you, from my heart.

*Dom hugs*

[jeanne]

Like Sir Russel said though, keep doing submissive things for him.

Or we can start a frustrated submissive thread and and bitch in it to our hearts content.

I am. I still take care of him in the same ways I have the last few months, just without the weight of my expectations.

Naw, no need to bitch. It'd be kinda pointless, wouldn't it? Wouldn't change anything and just get us all wound up.

lol if it doesn't work out let me know first. As close as I come to real begging

Sir_Russell, that's an awfully flattering offer. Very, very flattering, in fact. I'm sure you're aware of how much respect and caring I have for you. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) that position has already been filled.

[Austerus]

Aww j,

Sorry to hear things aren't going in a way that you might like. I'm sure though that if your relationship is a good one and your husband wants you to be happy, he'll try and find ways over time to find some middle ground with you. I'm sorry you're feeling depressed, but I hope that with time that things will improve.

In the meantime, you're always welcome to bitch loudly and regularly...I'll always be happy to listen.

[thrall]

Hi Honey..........I just saw this thread.........and i know your very pain.

.......................*bangs head on keyboard*

The words I use are "if you don't want this for yourself, than its not worth my having."

Yes I see, and know all to well, the need for communication, but you are feeling that its a one way street. That your husband is not ......hearing or listening to you when it comes to your wants and needs.

We are who we are J. You are a submissive and cannot change. He is vanilla and cannot change. The question is can you meet somewhere in the middle?

I think Oz comes closest to the answer

I'm here for you if you need to talk

Thrall

[Sir_Russell]

[/QUOTE]
Sir_Russell, that's an awfully flattering offer. Very, very flattering, in fact. I'm sure you're aware of how much respect and caring I have for you. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) that position has already been filled.[/QUOTE]

jeanne that wasn't flattery nor a compliment just the truth, I too feel that way for you and have for quite some time. I guess I can relate as well as a Dom can I travel across country to be with morgan since she could not do without me only to be treated like dirt once I got here. Different sides to the same coin.

[Flaming_Redhead]

I guess I can relate as well as a Dom can I travel across country to be with morgan since she could not do without me only to be treated like dirt once I got here. Different sides to the same coin.

I can't even imagine that happening to you of all people! I'm shocked and appalled! I can definitely see it happening to someone like me which is probably why I don't go for the whole above and beyond thing for people. grrrr

[Ozme52]

Sir_Russell, that's an awfully flattering offer. Very, very flattering, in fact. I'm sure you're aware of how much respect and caring I have for you. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) that position has already been filled.

Someone got lucky methinks.