Time, death and the universe

[MMI]

MMI: Best thread in a long time!

I have to agree with you there.

Again!?

MMI: It might help explain why things never grow younger, or why coffee goes cold, but does not heat up.
The ice block falling back up into the glacier ... surely gravity trumps time here?

But coffee does heat up! You just have to add energy to it. Perhaps time can be reversed by the proper application of energy?

Same problem [for the ice block] as the coffee. If you apply enough energy, at the right time, you can push that ice block back onto the glacier.

I'm not sure I can accept that boiling a kettle, or even counteracting gravity, amounts to reversing time (especially if you have to wait for the "right time") ... but I did allude to reversing physics in my earlier post: same thing but more?

MMI: The arrow of time tends towards entropy (chaos, waste). Does it? Throughout all of elapsed time so far, it seems to me the universe has evolved, not disintegrated. Maybe that will change, but will it affect the direction of time?

The law of entropy only applies in a closed system. The universe as a whole is a closed system, since it contains everything in existence. Parts of the universe temporarily reverse entropy, which is why we have life on Earth, for example, but overall, entropy rules.

I'm way out of my depth here, but it seems to me that the whole of the known universe is at pretty much the same level of chaos. So why not the rest of it?

MMI: Whatever caused the universe to come into being is/was not bound by the laws of physics

We don't know that, though. There could be (and probably are) physical properties which we have yet to unravel. There are many cosmologists who are speculating about how the universe could have formed, using what we know about the current universe. One, or more, of these speculations could prove to be right.

So the hypothesis is that the laws of physics precede physicality itself?

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MMI: Will I live again? ... I suspect the chances are small.

Actually, the chances are quite large ... One thing life is good at is recycling.

Good point

No, [the sun won't go supernova]. It will eventually expand into a red giant, probably encompassing the Earth itself, before collapsing down into a white dwarf.

Thanks for the info. It suggests that once Earth has been absorbed, the chances of Earth-life being recycled any further are minimal.

[denuseri]

Again!?

Hey it even happens with me some times lol!






I'm way out of my depth here, but it seems to me that the whole of the known universe is at pretty much the same level of chaos. So why not the rest of it?

Yes! Why not?





So the hypothesis is that the laws of physics precede physicality itself?

Well on the ultra small scale they do sort of. Like the laws break down into smaller constituents and then even smaller break downs continue further. Like Time should have its own probability particle wave just like gravity or the nuclear forces etc. It's postulated that everything at one point was compressed down to the size of the smallest of things first and then expanded with no evidence being possible at this point of what existed if anything before, why it was compressed or why it suddenly decided to expand or even if it oscillates back and forth.

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Thanks for the info. It suggests that once Earth has been absorbed, the chances of Earth-life being recycled any further are minimal.

The latest I heard is that it is more likely that as the sun's fuel is exhausted and it expands into its red giant phase it's warping of gravity around it will also change and that the earth and other planets may not fall into the sun but surf the expansions pressure wave into more distant orbits that may or may not involve collusion with the outer planets which being already more distant and massive may not react as quickly.

[Thorne]

The latest I heard is that it is more likely that as the sun's fuel is exhausted and it expands into its red giant phase it's warping of gravity around it will also change and that the earth and other planets may not fall into the sun but surf the expansions pressure wave into more distant orbits that may or may not involve collusion with the outer planets which being already more distant and massive may not react as quickly.

I haven't heard this one before, but I can see the possibility. I'm not sure such pressure waves wouldn't be just as likely to suck the Earth deeper into the Sun, though. Let's face it: the Earth is pretty massive, and moving at a pretty good clip. That's a lot of momentum to overcome. And I'm not aware that they have even shown that such "pressure waves" can be produced by gravity. Not saying they can't be, but I'd like to see the explanations.

Thanks for the info. It suggests that once Earth has been absorbed, the chances of Earth-life being recycled any further are minimal.

It may not be that bad, actually. I suggest you find a copy of Phil Plait's book, "Death From the Skies". He delves into all the different ways that the universe can kill us, including the Sun's expansion. But he also says that we may be able to move the Earth away into a more distant orbit, to buy us a little time. It's good reading, and not overly technical.

[Thorne]

Originally Posted by Thorne
I have to agree with you there.

Again!?

See? Miracle CAN happen!

I'm not sure I can accept that boiling a kettle, or even counteracting gravity, amounts to reversing time (especially if you have to wait for the "right time") ... but I did allude to reversing physics in my earlier post: same thing but more?

That wasn't what I meant. Just that it may someday be possible to apply a certain type of energy at a certain level to reverse the entropy of time, just as by adding energy to that kettle can reverse the entropy of the water.

I'm way out of my depth here, but it seems to me that the whole of the known universe is at pretty much the same level of chaos. So why not the rest of it?

The size of the universe is, literally, unimaginable. The amount of contaminants (matter) is incomprehensibly small by comparison. According to this page, "0.0000000000000000000042 percent of the universe contains any matter." Looking from the outside (Outside the universe? Try wrapping your head around that!) the universe is virtually empty!

So the hypothesis is that the laws of physics precede physicality itself?

The "laws" of physics are man made. They are simply statements of observations, which so far have held true under normal conditions. Calculations suggest that under the immense gravity of a black hole, or at the time of the Big Bang, these laws would not necessarily apply. So I would say no, they do not predate physicality, but are an integral part of it.